Explanation: Baserape/Spawnrape - Operation Metro 8)

[Vercetti]

Dear community

We love to play a fair game and we also want others to have a fair game. There are some types of gameplay which ruin the fun for people while playing: Spawn and Base raping.
We try to balance the rounds as much as possible, so that we, and the entire gaming community has a lot of fun while gaming on our servers
We as a community, should set an example for all players, how the game is meant to be played. We all play it, because we want to have fun. We will enforce our rules on the servers, in order to give everyone a fair, balanced and fun game.
I know it's a long read, so I do not expect all members to have read our code of conduct, because most of it is based on common sense. Nevertheless, I would like to focus on point 7.2.1. I would like to clarify some things about Spawnraping.
It's poor sportsmanship, to kill the enemy when they are not able to defend themselves, not giving them a fair chance. It will make people leave servers, and will remember the server as a unbalanced server, possible not to return.

Therefore, here are the definitions of Spawnraping and Baseraping.

Spawnraping:
Kill people right after they spawn.
Example:
- Waiting at a spawn beacon for the enemy to spawn and kill them.
- Waiting at a set spawnpoint Â*and kill the enemy when they spawn, with no intention of capturing the spawnpoint.
Not Spawnraping:
- An enemy spawns on another enemy.
- An enemy spawns while you're capturing the spawnpoint.

Baseraping:
Attacking the enemy in their own uncapturable base. This includes the enemy walking to the first spawnpoint, when there is no cover. Give the other team a fair chance, balance the teams. Do not walk into the enemy spawn, or shoot into the enemy spawn, there is no excuse.
The enemy team will have more and more snipers in the back, trying to take you out, making it only harder for the non-snipers to push through. Don't kill the snipers in the back, or anyone walking in the uncapturable spawnpoint area. Move a bit back, and properly defend the flag, there is no need to further keep the enemy team down.

Hereby a small picture of Metro. Note the red-marked areas, these are the baserape areas. Shooting or moving into this area is prohibited, and you will get kicked for it. We expect all our members to play by these rules, and punish those who are not (kick).

http://www.oldguys.eu/file/Vercetti/metrorape.jpg

I hope this is all clear now, and expect all members, and of course the entire Battlefield 3 community to follow these rules when playing on our servers.

[Burning]

Question:

If the enemy (mainly tons of snipers) camps in their uncap. Take as example Russian base on metro.
And they camp in there and shoot at me defending A. And i shoot back.

That makes me?
A spawnraper? A Spawnkiller? Or neither of those?
And if its the latter, how will you decide who was "defending himself" and who was spawnkilling?

[Vercetti]

Simple, Don't shoot in the spawn. If you have a visual at them coming at you, you are also able to shoot them.
Try to just defend it, and let their snipers be. If they can't find targets (they most of the times suck anyways), the will move up.

[FluggerNO]

emeh... Dont know who made this photo but A is the Cafe. C is in the tunnels.. hehe..
U see me trolling ÂÂ*:lol:

But I like the post.. Makes it all clear ÂÂ*:D

[Vercetti]

Yeah, the 'cafe' isn't correct (not my map blueprint), but you get the idea. C is at the right place it should be :)

[FluggerNO]

Yes it is.. And this is how I have tryed to run the metro when I have been playing there.
But again realy nice post so we all can see how ÂÂ*:D

[Burning]

Simple, Don't shoot in the spawn. If you have a visual at them coming at you, you are also able to shoot them.
Try to just defend it, and let their snipers be. If they can't find targets (they most of the times suck anyways), the will move up.

Ic Ic,
If you give the enemy a proper chance. Then you shouldn't break this rule.
So i guess its pretty common sense like the others :)

[DragonBoon]

That cleares up a lot of missunderstandings. I always imagined the area in between last flag and initial spawn is the area of "No Go!" and "Don't Shoot!". Thanks for your confirmation and this important post. Your will shall be transposed...:D

[dabreen]

pretty clear to me

[Hangover]

Thanks Frank ! We have tryed it out today and it worked for almost everybody. It isn´t like in Sunday when i was killed 13 times when i was spawning in the camp :-) Hope it will work fine now.

[macgyver1969]

It's also clear that, when one team has all the flags up to A, there is no balance. It is always nice to give the enemy some space so the fight can go on. It's realy boring to rape the enemy back in its own spawn.

[MightyDWC]

I have to throw this in. On the BC2 servers, it was against the rules to sit in your uncap and fire out of it. Granted BF3 maps are not BC2 maps,(Dice really needs to fix sitting in uncap spamming mortars) but I would read the above as shooting OUT of the uncap is allowed then?

[Vercetti]

Hi mate, long time no see.

Yes it is allowed, campers will always exist, but they are way less than in BC2. However on this particular map, the Baserape is insane when it goes bad.

[DragonBoon]

Well, firing mortars out of spawn is low. But the moment you're going to start kicking usual campers, is the moment were I no longer use our servers. I'm not a frequent camper, but sometimes I do indeed camp my butt off, simply because I'm to lazy walking around.

[badger906]

If all bases are captured i tend to spawn at the furthest base away, i got my whole squad doing that last night, helped balance things up a little, even if only the 4 of use weren't base raping.

[ExLee]

Damn, now the road between A and RU Base is a "ceasefire zone" ? One more reason not to play this map then...

But seriously Metro is just one huge rape... You can draw lines but in the end you are still going to be raped at one of the choke points... The only difference is either getting killed 5 sec after spawning or after 25 seconds of running...

[WhiteMoose]

Damn, now the road between A and RU Base is a "ceasefire zone" ? One more reason not to play this map then...


If this is true. Then I have to say that's rather stupid.
Are you not allowed to cap A? It will be impossible to hold A if you can't fire down on the road.

It will be impossible to tell people it's not allowed, because it's a silly rule and I'm sure it doesn't exist anywhere else.
You'll be !killing and !kicking a lot of people who are completely unaware of it.

This is issue is just a balance issue anyway. If the teams are unbalanced, this is just a result from that.

All these problems boils down to Metro being an awful map for conquest with a high player count.

[runMFrun]

I've played a lot of metro moose this has always been the rule and people are ok with it.

[DragonBoon]

Damn, now the road between A and RU Base is a "ceasefire zone" ? One more reason not to play this map then...


If this is true. Then I have to say that's rather stupid.
Are you not allowed to cap A? It will be impossible to hold A if you can't fire down on the road.

It will be impossible to tell people it's not allowed, because it's a silly rule and I'm sure it doesn't exist anywhere else.
You'll be !killing and !kicking a lot of people who are completely unaware of it.

This is issue is just a balance issue anyway. If the teams are unbalanced, this is just a result from that.

All these problems boils down to Metro being an awful map for conquest with a high player count.

It's no about you're not allowed to defend Flag A from ontop the stairs and buildings by shooting into the "ceasfire zone", it's about not being allowed to step into this "no go" area, running around killing people that are on their way from spawn to Flag A. This is, in my understanding, counts the same as base raping. You can perfectly defend Flag A from ontop there, no need to walk right up to the Russian Spawn and kill people that have spawned seconds ago. Doing this is indeed nothing but bad sportsmanship and stat whoring.

[stoneshank]

The difference I see it is the two easily mixed up playmodes 'Conquest' and 'Conquest Assault' as the mapdesign is not as easily to spot where the "no go" area beginns. The major difference is that there is only one attacking team and their goal is to clean out the area (furthest in beginn the last point of defense and also where the major vehicles of their defense will spawn). As I play mostly Strike at Karkand and Sharqi Peninsula, I will use them as example.

Sharqi Peninsula - Quite easy to see where the first line of defense starts for people defending landside: its simply at 'City Entrance'; going further out will clearly make you feel outside the intended zone (no town left, you're countryside).
It's also quite easy for seaside defenders to notice the line; you dont swim out to the island towards Helispawnpoint, as defender.Helicopterspawnpoints is a matter of them own and really a DICE problem - had the map been a new thing, there would have been no chance of them helicopters spawning in sight of eachother and also within lockingdistance during initial game start timer.
It's rather easy to find yourself 'ok' or 'not ok' at that map.

Strike at Karkand - first base to attack is about 1 ½ or 2 ½ (depeding how you see it) blocks into the map, cover before entering city is there but isn't attackfriendly, its better suited to defend from (hence my problem with that area, why is it designed like that at all, it creates too easily the situation where defenders stop anything getting close).

If drawing a line at the alleys just infront of A (hotel) you def makes the attacking team have a way better chance (so is giving them atomic bombs so it wasnt necessary an all together positive thing). The major problem enforcing that line is that it doesnt come as natural as ie Sharqi Peninsula to wait at behind A. Common sense doesnt flare up as a "not ok" zone to be in when being one block in. I am myself not an admin but I do try to make people see why they shouldn't MAV glitch ("I am no admin myself, im only a trial in OG but i would hate to see you banned because of this thing the next time you try to connect to the server as we do at times review the logs as said in the servermessage, I rather play on this server with you on more occasions instead" usually does the trick quite often as I dont see as the "aggressor" rather than a guy that just wants to lend a helping hand.) but i do not see myself getting through on that supposed line of defense as the line can be way more blurry in 'Conquest Assault' rather than 'Conquest' maps from BF3.

In the example of Strike at Karkand the map is almost absentminded created in the BF3 version as they are just assuming that getting into the city will be easily done (which it's def not if your first vehicles dont push through and stop to bombard the city - a contraproductive initiative as you're blowing up your infantrys cover).

Regarding Spawnraping: I had missed this point; for me who only plays city maps and mostly the Back at Karkand collection of maps (thus 'Conquest Assault') attacking a heavily defended flag involves alot of spawnraping, knowing very well that the flag will take, at times, five minutes to take as you have to discourage people from defending it AND/OR waiting for enough Ass (vehicles) to clean out enough to get a tag off that doesnt get taken back immidiately. AFAIK I see this as way more natural on Conquest Assault (as they're often designed way more as a , fat at times and with corners but still, linear maps with one team being the only attacking team with no "own flags") compared to BF3 maps in the gamemode 'Conquest'.


TL;DR: Conquest Assault sometimes offer less clear lines (even defending spawnpoints is pushed forward past first base) and spawnraping can at times be viewed as tactical with no -expectation- to get the flag anytime soon.

Conclusion: All this not meant as an objection but rather a personal view which I would greatly appriciate opinions, clearifications and corrections on. Also - as the server jumbles team around at each game the ticket difference is too high, in 'Conquest Assaul'; is it 'ok' to teamnuke the attacking team when they take are about or allready taken all flags to get the defenders a chance (motive why yes: more chances for that single game for defenders to get back into the game. why not: the objective of the playform is to, as attacker, take the whole town/area).

Regards Jonas

edit: realised that the topic only addresses Metro.. gah, well, post still relevant from a more ponderous viewpoint i guess.

[WhiteMoose]

Imagine the following situation.

Operation Metro, rush, first phase.

As attackers, on the right hand side there is a rock inside attacker spawn. From that rock you can shoot far into the defenders side. Usually there are a couple of Recons there.
Visible in the open, but still within the base, is a mortar. Bombarding the defending team.
From what I can tell, these guys wouldn't be allowed to be killed. If they are killed, their killers made a bannable offence.

How is this a rule?

[Shadowfox]

This doesn't concern the Rush variant of Metro.
This rule is rule only for Metro Conquest, I guess.

[WhiteMoose]

This doesn't concern the Rush variant of Metro.
This rule is rule only for Metro Conquest, I guess.

I really hope so. Just want some clarification.

[Champ]

If you as a OG player have to wonder if you are baserapeing, you are

Nice rule for one self, to rule out any discusion

[FluggerNO]

U know Champ it has to be hardcore and push push all the way ÂÂ*:wink:

[Champ]

Jai ike får stå

[WhiteMoose]

If you as a OG player have to wonder if you are baserapeing, you are

Nice rule for one self, to rule out any discusion

Yes, that's an excellent rule to always remember.

The situations I mentioned are not at all baseraping if those were to be killed, but this rule would mean that it is.


U know Champ it has to be hardcore and push push all the way Â*:wink:

That's not relevant to anything mentioned in this thread.

[S4vant]

Is there an admin or an OG member on the server at all times? or would it be best to jump into TS to alert an admin. The US metro server just seems to have run amok tonight....was unusual for an OG server.

[Champ]

If you cant see anybody with a "OG" tag on, there is no better option then to come on ts, there might be somebody there that can help. I am not sure if there is a "!admin" enabled, that will alert one of the super admins, that our super admins have to answer

[runMFrun]

We have a "Live Chat" feature on our website. If an admin is on, click on it.

[S4vant]

thanks guys! I'm not really complaining, your Euro servers have been excellent. I've just tried the US servers recently. ÂÂ*Keep up the good work.

-From another 'old guy' ;)

[WhiteMoose]

Imagine the following situation.

Operation Metro, rush, first phase.

As attackers, on the right hand side there is a rock inside attacker spawn. From that rock you can shoot far into the defenders side. Usually there are a couple of Recons there.
Visible in the open, but still within the base, is a mortar. Bombarding the defending team.
From what I can tell, these guys wouldn't be allowed to be killed. If they are killed, their killers made a bannable offence.

How is this a rule?

Just doing a follow up on this.
It hasn't been adressed so far.

[Burning]

The picture shows the conquest map. Also this is pretty much only an issue that regards conquest.
So i think its safe to assume it doesnt apply to Rush.

[C4b4nossi]

Baserape is mostly a conquest - problem, but on some rush maps it' s also possible on the 1st mcoms. We are working on explicit examples for each map and mode.

[sharic22]

Last night was the first time I've ever played on a server where there are restrictions on where you can go and shoot in Metro. I had the most enjoyable games...scored more points than I ever have. It took me a little while to understand where the boundary was...you wouldn't think it would be that difficult...after all it's a simple map with a line drawn on it. Oh well...I just wanted to say that I will be back to OG for Metro again!

[C4b4nossi]

much appreciated for your feedback. Keep fighting...

[Henry_Setaga]

Finnaly, we can play normaly in metro ;)